79 Comments
User's avatar
Costa's avatar

> You don’t have to be Einstein to see the math ain’t mathing.

It's AI math 😁

Franz-Xaver Huber's avatar

As a boy I bought a big pack of match boxes and sold the single boxes at double price to Grandma. This math talent is enough to stay away from data centers.

Paul Jurczak's avatar

If you prompt it hard enough, it will start mathing.

Ozgalahlia's avatar

We read from Bloomberg analysis that planned gas fired powered data centres will increase US CO2 by 20% and the largest proposed Amazon data centre in Texas , if built would become the single largest emitter in the US. This is madness multiplied by 10 given our global climate threat. Big Tech and Big Fossil making life and the future worse for everyone on the planet. It’s got to stop!

Paul Jurczak's avatar

Cooking the planet one token at a time...

RepackagedMeatAwareness's avatar

Thats ok, our owners want it, we are useless eaters. They will realize assets using us as HDP

Tom Welsh's avatar

Actually, there was no "global climate threat". Maybe there is now.

Mojo planet's avatar

If you mean that in the context of threat being something that might happen, vs the clear reality that it is already happening. Shall I list the cities that have burned or flooded? There are of course fewer people that would agree with me, because they’re dead.

Amy A's avatar
21hEdited

The launch of ChatGPT in November 2022 was driven by opportunism from Altman because of the crypto collapse. It was never sustainable and it will be a mess. The things I see people doing with AI are things you can do without genAI, and you would never use genAI for them without the VC subsidy.

Gerben Wierda's avatar

OpenAI halting most training might be a clue. Sam *says* it is because the models get to powerful and a moratorium is needed. Which sounds to me like an excuse, maybe so they can also create a 'profitable month' like Anthropic, and then report an 'annualised' return based on that one month. It definitely sounds like OpenAI is trying to put in some austerity so they can stay afloat longer with the cash they have. But they have obligations for, what, $1.4 trillion by now? What happens to those (and everything built on that) when it becomes clear to the market at large that they will never be able to pay? The circular financing mirages will start to unravel. I expect this is not a case of if but when. But, who knows...

Oaktown's avatar

Meanwhile, Altman is attempting to corral lucrative government contracts by casting a 24/7 surveillance net around every American while hoovering up everything they've ever written on the internet, social media, and emails. Add that to what DOGE stole from the IRS, Medicare/Medicaid, and Social Security and you have reached an impossibly entrenched corrupt authoritarian government.

Henry Thornton's avatar

All stored in Oracle databases running in Oracle owned (or financed) data centers. Cue the Larry Ellison and Sam Altman Stargate annoucement the day after Trump returned to the WH. Ellison has publicly stated he is all in on a government database to surveil the population.

Mark Repsher's avatar

I think Ed Zitron was among the first math ain’t mathing folks - if I recall correctly, he’s in the middle at $4-5 trillion in annual revenue required.

Oaktown's avatar

Best news of the day: "Through a mixture of greed, stupidity, and arrogance, the heroes of 2023 have become the villains of 2026."

Thanks to all who have been warning about this for years. But I don't believe for a minute any of the Red party pledges and claims they will actually stop data centers. I still say vet all candidates for where their campaign donations come from—and if it's dark money, no need to wonder; anyone who wants to hide who donates money to them knows you wouldn't like it.

dwt's avatar

The sheep are getting nervous, so the wolves have tamped down the howling until after the midterms. That's all this is.

All of these paused projects will be back in forward gear by the start of 2027, regardless of who appears to be in charge in DC.

Oaktown's avatar

Absolutely. Count on it. The Red fascist party is nothing but a flock of grifters, sexual predators, frauds, incompetent losers, and crooks.

Dr JCB's avatar

Techbro grifters gotta grift

Anatol Wegner, PhD's avatar

but AI is going to cure all disease, fix climate change, usher in a new age of automated abundance and turn humanity into a space faring civilization!

Wheatpaste's avatar

Curious when the massive savings my clients keep salivating over will kick in

TheAISlop's avatar

Gary, we probably diverge a bit on this one. Keep up the good work. I'm going to read the room in advance and keep a lid on it.

I think my theme is basically this. I don't have a problem with data centers but they need to take care of the people, not target low-income areas, low regulated areas. There's a way to do this right. Reboot if a community gets a data center, they ought to reap rewards related to that data center.

That's what's gotta change.

Bruce Olsen's avatar

"I don't have a problem with data centers but they need to take care of the people, not target low-income areas, low regulated areas."

Ah, yes. That will surely happen.

If you don't see why this all needs to be stopped immediately, I suggest you "sit with it" until you see the "load bearing" part of the argument.

Catherine Blanche King's avatar

Wait a minute. Trump is removing the ban on using the NATIONAL PARKS for drilling, logging, and other business practices, some of which is to build data centers. Problem solved!

The parks were going to burn down anyway because no one raked the underbrush and because some people who love fires start them on purpose. And how about those grizzly bears.

Bill Johnston's avatar

The ecological/human disaster being created by this latest technological miracle/debacle reminded me of a 1972 dystopian novel by the late SF writer John Brunner, "The Sheep Look Up," which forecast so much of what we're living with today. FWIW, here's the Wiki recap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_Look_Up

Bruce Olsen's avatar

I understand he was going after Greenland because he wanted to use their renowned forestry rakes to save our forests. Big rakes. So strong. But the bears. They couldn't learn how to rake. They were in the woods! They hadda do it! What wild bears naturally doo, umm, do. All over, so big, so strrrrong.

Catherine Blanche King's avatar

Bruce Olsen: The man is . . . umm . . . pure genius. But Bruce, there is a schtick in the punchbowl along with the wild-bear doo: I wonder why he didn't just buy the rakes from Greenland instead of trying to make it into a new State for the USA? Oh, well. I'm no genius and we just have to believe they'll do the right thing, as they always . . . umm . . . doo.

Kafka Olivero's avatar

While I kinda get what you’re saying, this can’t do that. It’s built on borrowed money so there is no way to share profits bc they don’t make any - they could be built in a way less deleterious to the local environment but that would make them longer timelines, which doesn’t make sense in a winner take all scenario

That’s what no one is accounting for, a bunch of these things have to fail by design even if they get built

Mehdididit's avatar

This! Take our nemesis, China, for example. They have about 500 data centers to our 5,500 (according to data not generated by AI.) They have focused on renewable energy so they have the resources to run their data centers. The “race with China” narratives appear to be xenophobic, fear mongering propaganda.

Andrew Mcdonald's avatar

How have they focused on renewable energy? They use more coal than the rest of the world combined. And China accounts for nearly half of all new nuclear reactors currently under construction worldwide

They are more like an all energy sources focused. Wind/solar are increasing too but systems costs are too high with higher penetration

Mehdididit's avatar

They are building massive solar fields, maintained by robotics. We have nothing comparable.

Andrew Mcdonald's avatar

They are also building a massive coal to synfuel plant

Catherine Blanche King's avatar

TheAISlop: Yes. And that's going to happen when Trump stops lying and when pigs fly.

TheAISlop's avatar

That should read reward a community. Hate that I can't edit.

Oaktown's avatar

You can edit; just click the three dots on the right and chose Edit, then Save.

TheAISlop's avatar

Delete, hide, share is it for me on the app.

Oaktown's avatar

Well that app sucks. Glad I didn't get it. You can use my solution if you go back to not using the app.

Mehdididit's avatar

I hated the app too! They really want you to use it because they want the data. You can’t participate in a live without the app (even if you’re a subscriber). They also limit messaging on the website. I have a message that’s been sitting there for months and if I try to open it , it directs me to the app. Any tricks for that?

Dutch's avatar

Zero chance this system is being built for the benefit of humanity. Zero.

RCThweatt's avatar

You could say a contract with an authoritarian gov't is the last refuge of a financial scoundrel. Good thing it won't be nearly enough for OpenAI to survive.

Fred Malherbe's avatar

The AI backlash is very real and is only growing. Its importance can't be overestimated. In the article below I argue that everyone loved the internet when it first appeared and show that there was no "internet backlash" at all. The only serious opponent of the tech was the Unabomber. Yet the dotcoms fell like lead balloons when the bubble burst.

I show that the more people know about AI, and the more they are exposed to AI, the more they hate and fear it. There are now more than 800 active groups fighting data centres in 49 American states. Join the dots. If you want to throw your money down a really big black hole, invest in AI.

https://systemshaywire.substack.com/p/investor-avoid-being-the-greater

Andrey Rusev's avatar

Great post! Thanks! :)

One thing I believe should be emphasized more (like more often) when it comes to "mathing" tech - someone is betting they'll make more money selling stock on Wall Street than selling... AI...Bear in mind there are plenty of "unsustainable" tech companies on Wall Street, with market caps like 5 times the cash they burned so far...

Anyway, my point is that we should be questioning more if they can pull up trillion-dollars IPOs or the world doesn't really have that much to invest in AI stock and it all goes "dot-com"...

Wolfgang Knorr's avatar

"I always assumed the game plan was to get a bailout if and when the economics fall apart, but at this point the big tech companies might be more screwed than I thought". Excellent news (unless you're invested in tech stocks).

Daniel Tucker's avatar

All I can say is, goooodddd....

BF's avatar
16hEdited

The folk that have been spending the past couple weeks searching for all 'the clauses' that let them 'bail' are likely the CEOs (or/and major shareholders) of Insurance Companies that provide coverage for those data centers.

The recent, pungent smell of roasting wild_berries has likely been quite motivating.